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RED surpassed Beats by Dr Dre margins record selling you just consumer SSD
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  • Are Japanese manufacturers ready to ship new cameras with prores raw capabilities and told apple « we are ready to pay for prores licence but get rid of this red patent « ? This could explain the Z6 delay or simply apple has a ciné camera on sight?

  • I’m awaiting the next installment of our Fearless Iranian From Hell aka Jinni- although i doubt there is much more. @ausboy it is a patent war, what dots do you need connected ?

    The Oakley Armstrong connection is old news and irrelevant backdrop moral bs. On topic: this Jinni guy could be funded by Seattle HQ Amazon or the big patent hedge fund Intellectual Ventures over there. Or Apple or any combination for that matter. With positions shifting all the time.

    Fact is he had funds to take on RED from practically day 1 starting JinnyTech in 2016. And it was he who took RED to court first Feb 2017- not the other way round. To the gullible he must seem to have a pair of balls the size of Ethiopia

  • RE:

    "Trial is set for 8/19/2019 at 01:30 PM in Courtroom 14106 before Judge James L. Robart. "

    Is this case now settled out of court? Or starts tomorrow?

  • For the Japanese makers, they need to either pay Apple for Prores or RED for a generic compressed raw, so in both cases they're paying.

    I think they've not done it because they haven't as yet seen it as necessary for the masses. And it protects their higher tier products. They've all pretty much done their own proprietary codecs.


  • @johnbrawley True, they protect their higher tier products, at least canon and sony but quid of fuji (even if they are attached to sony) and nikon, they have nothing to protect. Raw could be the new trend like hfr was some time ago. Regarding the masses i guess they follow the TV specs but the shrinking market could push them to offer more. Fuji had taken the hevc/h265 route, it will be nice if they up the profile from "4:2:0 10" to "4:2:2 12", i wonder if they can do it by firmware update. Btw i suspect h265 royalties to be lower than apple or red ones.

  • I just want everyone to imagine. That suddenly all the good cameras from $499 have all the recording formats you want, including ProRes, Prores raw, BRaw and all else. Just think about it.

    It won't take long to realize that it is only second base stage. Still night and day pollutions on forums, and still no real satisfaction.

    Camera management still can't even make proper AF for small guys and distance measurement required for third base.

    I am not even talking about real satisfaction.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev I like to give my barbary macaque one peanut by one peanut :p

  • Talked to one guy who is far from all this, from storage market. And got new interesting version.

    Apple soon is going away from Lighting connector and to USB-C. It will be full Thunderbolt version (as it is now part of USB specs). And all of their smartphones since 2020 will be offering very speedy third party storage options. Rumors are even about native 2TB and 4TB SSD cases, made especially for small video guys. And yes, smartphones will have much better storage speeds compared to any RED cameras.

    Whole big fight with RED can be related to the fact that all new Apple mobile devices will be getting ProRes RAW support. It became important to remove unnecessary hurdle that just adds to the phone price.

    Also it explain perfectly all strange things with RED failed smartphone, as original idea had been to add another patents that are much more specific and will be first line of defence. But this stuff failed.

  • @eddavid

    Whether or not Apple will have any luck overturning this keystone patent in RAW video recording is anyone’s guess. If they succeed, they’ll totally change the RAW video landscape, allowing every cinema camera maker to use the same kind of RAW codec without having to develop something unique or pay RED a licensing fee. If they lose, they’ll probably have to settle with RED before they continue licensing ProRes RAW to companies like Atomos and Nikon.

    Just very inaccurate. It is not patent about "same kind of RAW codec".

    In widest claims it is ANY video storage in raw form. Previously position had been that series of individual frames are not affected by this patent, but in 2018 RED lawyers approached all main companies who used CDNG and told that found how to apply patent to them also.

    Prores RAW is now in the strange territory, as Apple and RED definitely have some private agreement considering its applications in cinema market and pro software.

    BRaw or ZRaw are not raw formats at all, they are partially debayered formats made to avoid the patent.

    As I said dispute is now about Apple possibility to use this codec in the broad range of consumer devices and big sums are at stage. If Apple will succeed to fully annul the patent RED most probably will go into tiny niche market, will no longer be sold on Apple sites, will vanish from most bloggers channels and will be sold to some large company within 3-4 years.

  • "That’s why Sony went after the ‘314 patent in 2013 (and lost)"

    Since this was settled out of court we really don't know the specifics of the settlement?

  • My understanding was their was possibly an IP swap as part of the settlement. Sony had counter sued RED for patent infringement as well so maybe they never got as far as this appears to have gotten.

    Anyone know what the X-OCN codec is based on ? I just shot it for the first time a few days ago. It seems very good and is high but depth and high precision.


  • @johnbrawley The Sony Boss aka Sir Chapman knows a bit about it. Btw It gives some hints about Sony vs Red. "The key to all of this is that the data contained within an X-OCN file is based on the sensors output rather than traditional video. The cameras that produce the X-OCN material all use bayer sensors. In a traditional video workflow the data from a bayer sensor is first converted from the luminance values that the sensor produces into a YCbCr or RGB signal." "However if we bypass the conversion to a video signal and just store the data that comes directly from the sensor we only need to record a single set of 4096×2160 data points – 8.8 million. This means we only need to store 1/3rd as much data as in a traditional video workflow and it is this huge data saving that is the main reason why it is possible for X-OCN to be smaller than traditional video files while retaining amazing image quality. It’s simply a far more efficient way of recording the data from a bayer camera."