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US: How anti-Chinese propaganda works
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  • 21 Replies sorted by
  • Well, doesn't make China look too good when they chuck people in jail for no reason, without any access to lawyers, then run 24hr/day interrogations. Or retroactively hand out a death sentence to a criminal after already completing a trial and determining a lessor sentence. Or unilaterally cancel their business obligations to foreign suppliers. Or threaten to grab anyone in Hong Kong that the communist party dislikes. Or build fake military islands in the middle of the south china sea.... Or perhaps it's all just fake news and they are really good guys. No chance.

  • @kinvermark

    You mean that right around 2018 they started doing all this (looking at the chart)?

    And "real fighters for people democracy" in the form of CNN and so on started their holy fight as soon as their brave correspondents opened their eyes on the issues? No?

    Looking at the US media focus it seems like Libya now is quite close to perfection considering democracy standards :-)

  • Anglo/American media blowhards try to make news as much as they report it, but China has been extremely duplicitous in nature. They are siliconjob valley's best ally and worst rival, since the country operates on similar principals to these uncaring, 'disruptive' tech companies. Of course, China will callously end lives while the valley ends jobs (they haven't made it to lives just yet).

    My dad did part-time work for a company that did a co-op with Duke university before he retired. There were lots of Chinese research assistants, which is now common to research universities since Americans don't like those positions. Aparently one of the assistants basically took classified materials science back home with him and is now a billionaire. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/education-or-espionage-chinese-student-takes-his-homework-home-china-n893881

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    1) CNN is just a news show. I don't watch it. There are many, many attempts to influence us today... including small websites run by a guy with a Personal View :) It's all propaganda in one form or another.

    2) USA is only one country in the western world and the ideas of its citizens are fragmented and polarized. There is no single USA attitude even amongst the capitalist elite that you claim control what kind of underwear I have on.

    3) You want to know about China: ask a "Chinese" guy from Hong Kong what they think. That is real truth. They are sh*$ scared of a oppressive totalitarian dictatorship hiding in capitalist clothing. I feel sorry for them.

  • It's all propaganda in one form or another.

    No.

    By propaganda we would understand the revolutionary explanation of the present social system, entire or in its partial manifestations, whether that be done in a form intelligible to individuals or to broad masses. By agitation, in the strict sense of the word (sic!), we would understand the call upon the masses to undertake definite, concrete actions and the promotion of the direct revolutionary intervention of the proletariat in social life.”

    V. Lenin

    See, doesn't work for CNN bullshit at all. Always check how someone define certain things.

    In topic title word "propaganda" is used in usual negative meaning typical for western media since around 50s.

    You want to know about China: ask a "Chinese" guy from Hong Kong what they think. That is real truth. They are sh*$ scared of a oppressive totalitarian dictatorship hiding in capitalist clothing. I feel sorry for them.

    Well, constantly talking to both mainland and HK Chinese. All responses not match with your US based opinion. HK guys definitely not scared about "totalitarism" and more concerned with possible removal of specifics present in their bank and business practices compared to mainland.

  • 1) Disagree. A broader definition of propaganda is important in dealing with an internet driven world. e.g., Facebook and Cambridge Analytica scandal.

    2) The idea that millions of people are taking to the streets in violent protest about "bank and business practice" is absurd. It's about oppression and fear of loss of their way of life. Hong Kong is not China. They're in full panic mode now.

    3) I am not American. Not that that should matter.

  • A broader definition of propaganda is important in dealing with an internet driven world. e.g., Facebook and Cambridge Analytica scandal.

    Again, I told about need to understand that is the defection of the word in each specific case. West elites and media attach negative connotation to this word to try to hide real meaning and try to hide how system functions.

    image

    I am normally use definition that you see above.

    The idea that millions of people are taking to the streets in violent protest about "bank and business practice" is absurd. It's about oppression and fear of loss of their way of life. Hong Kong is not China. They're in full panic mode now

    It is not "millions of people". Even US talks about "hundreds of thousands" at the few best days.

    No, they are not in full panic mode, they are lost and being lied to, but the ruling class of HK is in panic. Again, use the proper approach to analyze situation.
    Politics is the most concentrated expression of economics, its generalization, and its culmination.

    Extradition bill is absolutely irrelevant to 90% of population of HK, but it is very relevant to ruling class and close servants, as it allows mainland elites to quickly repress them or force to retreat.

    May be "extradition bill" is just product of some insane people in HK and Chinese elite? Nope, go back to explanation that politics is. During escalating trade war with US it is no way that China could have part of it (that it very interconnected to many of their top regions and finance system) having the elites/ruling class members that they have now (aka comprador bourgeoisie). As in such case it will be used as main attack vector on mainland economy.

    And it is reason why no one is backing off for long time, as it is real economic contradictions and backing off will worsen and not solve them.

    Most probably in very near future (can be even within 2 weeks) Chinese military will invade in HK and place it fully under mainland laws and regulations, putting all leaders and vivid ruling class members in the prisons (but most will be able to flee to Taiwan and US).

    I am not American. Not that that should matter.

    I just told about US based opinions, means they are same that US media want you to have.

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  • Most people in the West know absolutely nothing about China :) Actually they just repeat phrases they heard on the news or things their friends tell them. For example, "Hong Kong is not China." from signs carried by " HK protestors" If Hong Kong is not China what is it? Still part of the British Empire? Not even India or Canada is part of the British Empire, although they still are considered Commonwealth. If Hong Kong is not China, then Guam, Hawaii and Puerto Rico are not USA! Neither is Texas, California etc. All stolen from their people like the British stole Hong Kong. Since the US has 900 military bases around the world, I guess "The World is USA! " But Hong Kong is not China?

    Some may be peaceful protestors, but there are Rioters, Agents Provocateurs who are extremely violent. What is not shown on Western media is that they carry steel pipes, corrosive liquid, molotov cocktails and have been attacking police with them. And destroying government property. Some elderly people have been injured or died after being attacked for arguing with the "peaceful protestors". If this happened in the US, SWAT teams or the National Guard would move in. In Canada, when the FLQ, Quebec separatists ( Quebec is not Canada!) became violent, Trudeau Senior declared the War Measures Act, troops and tanks rolled into the streets to put an end to it.

    The Extradition Bill does not even apply to the young rioters. It was actually requested by Taiwan to extradite a Hong Kong man who murdered his Taiwanese girlfriend. Since Hong Kong has extradition agreements with almost every country in the world except China, HK decided to add China to the list even though China initially cautioned them not to do it at this time. Nevertheless, the China section of the bill applies to mainland Chinese who commit crimes that flee to Hong Kong. The West doesn't care about anyone being extradited to China. Not mentioned in Western media, is that the bill would more importantly affect US operatives in HK:

    After a landmark operation in 2010-12, Beijing had essentially destroyed the backbone of the US intelligence network in the Chinese mainland. It had been responsible for stirring and guiding the Tiananmen tragedy in 1989 and subversive activities in Xinjiang, Tibet and other parts of China. Nearly five years later, even NYT reported the CIA debacle

    That left the CIA with one last foothold on Chinese territory -- Hong Kong. With the protections afforded by One Country, Two Systems (OCTS), America’s agents would be beyond the reach of China’s anti-spy forces. The US consulate in HK, which looks like a fortress, became Washington’s biggest anywhere. It now held the CIA station responsible for all China. US agents mixed freely with equally numerous comrades from the UK consulate and Taiwan’s unofficial office.

    A HK-mainland extradition law could have changed all that. Without one, no person in HK could be extradited to China for trial. If passed, it would have enabled the dispatch to the mainland of people wanted there for serious crimes. The raging debate on the bill focused on its effect on Hong Kongers -- 99.9% of whom realistically would not have been affected.

    The public brouhaha missed a crucial point, however. Under OCTS, Hong Kong has full autonomy except in foreign affairs and national defence/security. Those areas come under the central government’s purview. So if Beijing were to demand extradition for anyone in HK charged under mainland law with offenses linked to foreign affairs or national security -- like spying or subversion -- the local government would have no say in the matter. Extradition would be automatic. The new law would have been a Damocles’ sword over the heads of all HK-based spies from the US, UK and Taiwan. Such a scenario would explain why the anti-Beijing forces pulled out all the stops to derail Hong Kong’s extradition law.

    And of course, the many leaders of the HK protests have met either with former CIA director Pompeo or their handlers. A few leaders have already fled to the US with US visas.

    Hong Kong's blackshirted "Thugs for Democracy" are being trained by a Serbia-based NGO called CANVAS (Center for Applied NonViolent Action and Strategies). The group claims its "big mission is to explain to the world what a powerful tool nonviolent struggle is when it comes to achieving freedom, democracy and human rights." But its record of operations (Ukraine, Egypt, Tunisia, Georgia, Syria, Venezuela, etc.) suggests it uses the word "nonviolent" very flexibly. CANVAS's own senior people have admitted they take money from the CIA..

    CANVAS provides very detailed training in both field operations (combat, protests, logistics) and ideology (freedom, democracy and human rights). Many of these are reflected in the behavior of the blackshirts and their attacks on HK police..
  • I understand that you are using the word propaganda in a very specific way. However, this is not the way 99.9999% of your readers will understand the word. Some responsibility lies with the author.

    "Extradition bill" is aimed directly between the eyes of people just like you! Academics, dissidents, authors, intellectuals… anyone who tries to put forward notions that are disliked by the Chinese government. The freedom you enjoy to publish this site is exactly what is being fought for by common people of Hong Kong.

  • @jleo

    So, you support the Chinese government against the Hong Kong protestors?

  • I understand that you are using the word propaganda in a very specific way. However, this is not the way 99.9999% of your readers will understand the word. Some responsibility lies with the author.

    It is not specific way, it is, for example way as almost all Chinese understand this word also. :-) Western definitions made in the interests of deceiving people during cold war is the specific wrong way.

    "Extradition bill" is aimed directly between the eyes of people just like you! Academics, dissidents, authors, intellectuals… anyone who tries to put forward notions that are disliked by the Chinese government.

    Wow. I am not big fan of Chinese government, really. But this things are really old, may be worked in 80-90s.

    The freedom you enjoy to publish this site is exactly what is being fought for by common people of Hong Kong.

    Well, no. Let's go back to definitions

    Freedom does not consist in any dreamt-of independence from natural laws, but in the knowledge of these laws, and in the possibility this gives of systematically making them work towards definite ends. This holds good in relation both to the laws of external nature and to those which govern the bodily and mental existence of men themselves -- two classes of laws which we can separate from each other at most only in thought but not in reality. Freedom of the will therefore means nothing but the capacity to make decisions with knowledge of the subject.

    https://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/16674/good-quote-on-freedom/p1

    Your common definition is such not by random means, it is such because had been set by ruling class fully in their interests.

    So, real freedom is not writing something "free-looking" that no one cares about like most sites do. Freedom is the knowledge of the subject and ability to make proper decision and change things to the better in reality even if using writing or talks.

  • Wow. I am not big fan of Chinese government, really

    OK, so we do agree. :) Maybe you too are a victim of Western media bias? Good chat.

  • @kinvermark

    Maybe you too are a victim of Western media bias?

    I am. Lot of times as I try to talk to educated sane man it looks like talk with bot with extreme resemblance to CNN anchor :-) I mean, even phrases match, I guess they are very good in domestic propaganda :-)

  • President Donald Trump tweeted on August 13 that he “can’t imagine why” the United States has been blamed for the chaotic protests that have gripped Hong Kong.

    Trump’s befuddlement might be understandable considering the carefully managed narrative of the US government and its unofficial media apparatus, which have portrayed the protests as an organic “pro-democracy” expression of grassroots youth. However, a look beneath the surface of this oversimplified, made-for-television script reveals that the ferociously anti-Chinese network behind the demonstrations has been cultivated with the help of millions of dollars from the US government, as well as a Washington-linked local media tycoon.

    https://thegrayzone.com/2019/08/17/hong-kong-protest-washington-nativism-violence/#more-13591

    How much does Hong Kong rely on China economically?

    from Joseph Wang, lives in Hong Kong Chief Scientist, Bitquant

    Totally reliant. In addition to electricity, water, and food, pretty much every job in Hong Kong is dependent on some aspect of the Mainland. Every finance job is reliant on moving money into the mainland. Every job in shipping and trade is reliant on moving goods out of the mainland.

    And this is historical. The British took Hong Kong because they needed a base to do their trading with Guangzhou. Once the Communists took over in 1949, they left Hong Kong alone so that they could have some link with the capitalist world.
  • @kinvermark

    Yes, free press, I remember

    Police estimated that 128,000 people were at Sunday’s rally

    Same day, Trump

    ”Journalism” has reached a new low in the history of our Country. It is nothing more than an evil propaganda machine for the Democrat Party. The reporting is so false, biased and evil that it has now become a very sick joke..

    You mean that HK need more of this?

  • I have absolutely no idea what you are going on about.

    I point out why US Views of China might be unfavourable and try to present some facts; you guys say I've got it all wrong and don't know what I 'm talking about.

    So I point out an article written by a legitimate news correspondent on the ground in Hong Kong from a totally reputable Canadian source, and you start waffling on about some crap from Trump.

    This method of discourse is insane. I give up.

  • So I point out an article written by a legitimate news correspondent on the ground in Hong Kong from a totally reputable Canadian source, and you start waffling on about some crap from Trump.

    Trump is 100x times closer to reality about press :-) He does not like this evil propaganda machine being used against him, but is using exactly this machine against any company of country that oppose US economics interests.

    For me it looks same as typical US press. Article is made like some copy&paste from hundreds of other articles including mangling with numbers (around 15x times!). Of course you can think inside (just for fun) that prostitute is loving you with all her heart, but it is not reality. I hope you grasp the concept.

    As I told, if you expect on PV level of discussion ala typical comment on other sites - you will be greatly upset.

    But if you will find courage to read, spend time and explore economics, basics of philosophy it will be more and more interesting.

  • Real freedom

    • Twitter announced in a blog post on August 19th that it will no longer accept advertising from state media operations, like China Central Television.
    • Although Facebook did not announce any policy changes following the discovery of several accounts and pages spreading misinformation about the protesters, the company is “committed to continually improving to stay ahead,” according to Nathaniel Gleicher
    • YouTube is being pressured to remove ads from China Central Television, a state media channel that’s allegedly spreading misinformation about protesters in Hong Kong.

    Only proper CNN based information must reach your ears.

  • Yasha Levine @yashalevine

    HAHAHAHA! Twitter will rely on Freedom House, funded through one of the CIA’s NGO projects, will advise @Twitter on who is and isn’t “state-controlled.”

    You can’t make this shit up.

    How will we define state-controlled media in this context?

    This policy will apply to news media entities that are either financially or editorially controlled by the state. It has been informed by established academic and civil society leaders in this space. Sources include Reporters Without Borders Press Freedom Index, Freedom House, the Economist Intelligence Unit Democracy Index, the European Journalism Centre’s Media Landscapes Report, the Committee to Protect Journalists, and UNESCO's framework to assess media development and independence.

    We will be making policy determinations on the basis of critical issues of media freedom and independence, such as control of editorial content, financial ownership, influence or interference over broadcasters, editors, and journalists, direct and indirect exertion of political pressure, and/or control over the production and distribution process.

    This policy will not apply to entities that are solely dedicated to entertainment, sports, and travel content. However, if the content is mixed with news, it will be prohibited.

    cburnett_

    Ah, Freedom House, the NGO whose only major criticism of US Media in 70 years was "not being enthusiastic enough" about the Vietnam War.

    Holly ‏@HollyBlomberg

    Control of information is part of our “managed democracy” — totalitarianism cosplaying as free society https://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/our_managed_democracy.htm

    3Joes @cphanellq

    We will now be drenched in freedom.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2015/01/08/cias-hidden-hand-in-democracy-groups/

  • Google just published a blog post revealing that it has disabled 210 YouTube channels that the company says “behaved in a coordinated manner while uploading videos related to the ongoing protests in Hong Kong.”

    Wiping out any Chinese viewpoint.

    We found use of VPNs and other methods to disguise the origin of these accounts and other activity commonly associated with coordinated influence operations.

    This is clearly written by and for imbeciles.

    You CAN'T use Youtube in China without VPN, so it is not about shit you are writing.